On Certain British Clerics Who Defend Atheism… An Observation

Clerics (British or otherwise so far as that goes) who defend Atheism are to Christianity what Anne Heche is to homosexuality:  publicity seekers who wish only to appear ‘chic’ only to appear instead trite and ‘neither hot nor cold- and because neither hot nor cold, only worthy of being vomited’.

13 thoughts on “On Certain British Clerics Who Defend Atheism… An Observation

  1. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 6:36 pm

    I will not defend atheism, I will how ever defend the right for anyone to believe what ever they wish to believe. For you cannot mandate someone’s belief system.


    • Jim 30 Nov 2010 at 6:50 pm

      nor should you. but neither should you stand and be counted with atheism when a christian. it is a contradiction. such persons are divided against themselves and their very being.


  2. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 7:41 pm

    Very true. I stand with and am counted with Christ. It is this very position which causes me to fellowship within the church and minister to and within society which the church is but a subset.


    • Jim 30 Nov 2010 at 7:57 pm

      the church is NOT a subset of society – it is the body of christ. ‘if they hated me, they will hate you…’ to suggest that the church is a subset of the world is to deny its very essence and to adopt a position totally foreign to scripture.


  3. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Certainly the church is the body of Christ. And as such God’s kingdom is distinctly different to the world. The physical presence of the catholic church (universal not RC) is not removed from the world; rather is immersed in the world. It’s not above the world. Its not under the world. Its presence is through and within the world.

    Yet the church is not the world and therefore in a physical sense the church is a subset of society; for its mandate is to go out into the world and make Christ known to the world. Yet its mandate is not to dominant society through laws; rather instead the mandate of the Church is to teach its people how to live as Christians within the world.


    • Jim 30 Nov 2010 at 8:05 pm

      youve hit the nail on the head- the church’s mandate is to go ‘into’ the world because believers are NOT of the world even though they are IN the world. going into presumes one is not presently in. essentially, christians, and thus the church, are strangers, pilgrims. hebrews makes this point pointedly.


  4. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 8:26 pm

    So essentially we stand in agreement. And because the church is not of the world; it has no right to mandate laws for the world.


    • Jim 30 Nov 2010 at 9:05 pm

      which means that the concerns of the world can’t be its.


  5. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 9:17 pm

    It depends on what you mean by the concerns of the world? I have been ministering as a chaplain to homeless men over the last 18 months. Yesterday I took up a new role as a community chaplain.
    In this role I minister as a representative of the church I fellowship at; ministering to people who need it.

    In this role I see the churches role in engaging with the world and in doing so making the concerns of the world its own. However; I strongly believe that the church should not be active in making laws for society; take the issue of state marriage for instance. I don’t think the church has the mandate to enforce / dominate any laws regarding the states involvement regarding who or what can be married..

    However as a minister I will strongly teach my congregation as to God’s ways regarding marriage and how to live within the marriage covenant.


    • Jim 30 Nov 2010 at 9:33 pm

      fan of rauschenbusch?


  6. Craig Benno 30 Nov 2010 at 10:30 pm

    I had to look Rauschenbusch up; not having heard of him nor read any of his works. I would not go as far as he does in dropping the theory of Substitutional Atonement which is what I hold to; though I also recognise that other theories of the Atonement also have some Biblical merit.

    I do believe that the Gospel mandates the church to be involved in social issues. I have just finished studying the Minor Prophets this semester and God rebuked the Hebrew nation not only for failing their cultic obligations towards God, they also failed in regards to social care and social justice with each other.

    Jesus went and did good within society. Israel was not a Jewish society; rather was under control of the Romans and therefore was a subset of Roman rule. Yet Jesus went about doing good within the social construct of that society and engaging with people where they were at within the societal construct. I believe the very essence of disciple making involves the church getting their hands dirty within the brokenness of society.

    When I initiated and co-ordinated a inter church suicide prevention and awareness network in my local area we saw many broken people come out of the woodwork both within society and within the church. 12 months after we did this; one pastor told me a lady came into his church asking for help for her mum had taken her life… She told the pastor.. “I know you can help me; I saw your flyers 6 months before… My own son’s preschool teacher had been very antagonistic towards the gospel and the church… she shared how her partner took his life when she was pregnant. She later became saved; baptised and is now involved with her local church. … in her own words… It was through our reaching out to her, that she saw the church in action and was able to hear the message of salvation…

    Yeup…I’m all for getting involved in social issues.


  7. Rev Tony Buglass 1 Dec 2010 at 9:52 am

    Clerics defending atheism? No. Christians bringing light into the dark, by walking with the people who are wandering there – no problem.


    • Jim 1 Dec 2010 at 10:01 am

      christians dont bring light into darkness by applauding darkness


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