1- What biblical or theological justification is there to pray for the dead?
2- What biblical or theological justification is there for believing that the dead pray for us?
3- How is ‘praying to a saint’ different from idolatry?
4- Isn’t it idolatrous to place your faith in any for salvation other than Christ?
5- Isn’t the entire notion of the invocation of the saints idolatrous and blasphemous?
I ask because with the beatification of John Paul II there is much discussion in the media about saints and their mystical magical powers to affect peoples lives and I find it all, quite frankly, more than a little disturbing and just downright pagan. It’s almost as though the Roman Church has simply replaced the Greek pantheon with saints and that the old paganism of Rome is still alive and well in the Vatican and its outlying stations.
[NB- please don't take this to mean I have problems with Catholics. My problem is with this aspect of Catholic theology / Mariolatry].
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Geoff
01/05/2011 at 08:48
When I ask these same questions I get asked, “why do you accept the canon?”
Jim
01/05/2011 at 08:52
because it makes sense.
Joe Zias
01/05/2011 at 09:04
Ever been to India, they do this stuff in spades, in fact after spending time there I’m born agin’ this time in favor of polytheism. Having a bad hair day, get another god, and there’s a celebration of-to something each and every day.
Michael Barber
01/05/2011 at 12:19
Jim:
These are fantastic questions. . . and they deserve thoughtful answers. I’m unable to give a thorough response now–I’m at a conference–but I’ll post something on this next week on our blog.
Obviously, I can’t discuss it all here. . . but I feel compelled to offer some sort of brief response.
Non-Catholics seem to believe that death is stronger than our union in Christ. I respect that view. Certainly we cannot “hear” them speaking to us. And I know the Old Testament passages that people will turn to as well, e.g., prohibitions against necromancy. Again, let me be respectful. I hear those passages. But, it seems to me, that contacting the dead to gain knowledge not the same thing as asking those we are united to in the grace of Christ in the New Covenant to pray for us.
Christ has come to unite all things in heaven and on earth (Eph 1:10), so that we already sit with him in the heavenly places (Eph 1:20).
It seems to me that, for those of us united to Christ, the New Testament shows nothing is stronger than our union in Christ–not even death.
Let me also point out that in the Apocalypse it is abundantly clear that those in heaven are aware of what is happening on earth. Also recall Jesus’ response to the Sadducees. Speaking of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus explained that the Lord is “not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
In short, I do not believe Scripture teaches that the dead in Christ are “deaf” and aloof to the struggle we face on earth. I believe they can pray for us.
Is it idolatry to ask you to pray for me? I don’t think so. Scripture calls upon us to pray for one another. So then, why is it idolatry to ask those are with Christ to pray for us?
I think I also need to emphasize something. If someone is a “saint” it is not because they have in some way cornered the market on holiness, but, rather, they are ONLY holy because of what Christ has done in their lives. Do some people misunderstand this? Yes. But do not use the misunderstanding of “dilettantes” (as you might say!) to discredit what authentic Catholic teaching really is. Just because some people misunderstand and misrepresent the Bible’s teaching, does not mean that it is foolish to read it as Scripture.
Anyways, as I said, I’ll offer a more complete response later.
God bless and thanks for offering the opportunity for charitable dialogue.
Peace!